Home » Astrology » Saturn Transiting Out Of Libra and Misunderstandings About Synastry

Saturn Transiting Out Of Libra and Misunderstandings About Synastry

All is well until the masks come off

Misunderstandings about synastry abound in astrological lore.

Now that Saturn is in the process of transiting out of Libra, the time has come to sum up what we’ve learned during this sojourn through the relationship sign. In the past week, I have heard of three Librans who have recently ended long-term relationships.

With Saturn going into Scorpio, it’s my belief we will have the opportunity to gain clarity about what we truly want and need in relationship, but that does not mean we will all be ready for a long-term relationship.

I think much of the misunderstanding about love, relationship, and compatibility in astrology comes from taking certain teachings too literally.

Saturn in Scorpio’s lesson will be to pay more attention to the real person, and less to the chart to determine if he’s right for you

If you’ve read a lot of astrological wisdom, or even a little bit, you’ve been told that trines are ‘easy,’ sextiles have the reputation of being ‘opportunities,’ and everyone should be avoiding squares in synastry. Oppositions are even worse—or better, depending upon who you read.

The only traditional idea I still entirely agree with is that conjunctions are powerful. Yes, they are, and close conjunctions in synastry, as far as I can tell, are an indicator, not of automatic compatibility, but of the likelihood that the two people involved really do need to be together to accomplish something—whether for a day or a lifetime is another issue, however.

I will explain, in brief, why relationships too often don’t work. This analysis points to the overall issue I think we should be considering, instead of what we’ve been taught to think about synastry, which is that instead of comparing angles and aspects, we should be asking “what do these signs, these charts, these people, have in common? Where are they different? To what extent are their differences good for each other to learn from?”

In other words, instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater just because you see a bunch of squares in the synastry, instead ask, “What do I need to learn from the way this person is, the way he behaves, that is different—and therefore irritating?” It is entirely possible that this person’s strange ways, diabolically different from yours, will teach you something you need to know about yourself, therefore expanding your way of being in the world.

A frequent misunderstanding is that if two planets are in square, they are automatically bad and should be thought of as inherently ‘evil’ and to be avoided. In contrast, we are taught to seek out trine relationships, because it’s much easier to get along with someone who does things just like you. To a large extent, of course, someone just like you will be a lot easier to get along with, it’s true. Think about it: you won’t have to do all that much work to be in a relationship with someone whose Sun trines yours. You both come from a similar understanding of how the world works.

You also won’t grow very much, either.

Cupid, draw back your bow….

Instead, try looking at it this way: Squared planets don’t work very well together not because they are automatically ‘bad’, but because the greatest likelihood is the two people are entirely different in ways they will each have to struggle to understand about the other.

The two people spend a lot of time together trying to explain themselves to the other. This can be very tiring, but if you give it enough time, and keep trying, you will learn a lot. Ideally, what you will learn will be tolerance, which we pay a lot of lip service to, but don’t necessarily practice.

Oppositions in synastry are also fraught with emotion for many astrologers. It would be nice if astrologers would learn to focus on the ways in which oppositional planets indicate the similarities between the couple, since oppositions indicate different sides of the same coin. Opposite signs usually have more in common, ironically, than do trined signs, and the reason for that, it seems to me, is that we look for compatibility in the wrong place.

We’ve been taught to think of synastry like this: the elements must be the same, or, if they’re not, they must be complementary, for the relationship to work. This presupposes that similar elements are, automatically, compatible, that only they are similar enough to understand one another, and more importantly, to be sympathetic to our partner’s concerns.

I contend that two Water-sign planets are no more compatible than are an Air planet in square to Fire. I think we’ve been taught to give far too much weight to the idea that compatibility exists at this more superficial level (and here I am not referring to Sun signs; I am referring instead to the compatibility we’ve been taught exists between elements).

It’s been my experience that true compatibility, the kind most people really want, where the two people stay together over a long period of time, and are loving and faithful, etc., stems from an entirely different formula, and it’s not one that can be seen simply by comparing aspects and angles between the charts.

First, you must assess each chart on its own, each character on its own, to determine the extent to which this individual is capable of being in a long-term relationship. Do you see a serious person, one who is capable of loving you? You won’t see that from the aspects made between your charts. I cannot stress enough how important it is not to fall for someone who is inherently incapable of being in love in the first place. Take a very careful look at the other person, their character (not just their chart) before giving them your heart. That’s step one to determining compatibility.

Compatibility works in strange and marvelous ways, most of which are entirely unpredictable

Step two requires understanding where true compatibility comes from. Largely, compatibility comes from timing, the timing of finding someone who is ready, willing, and able to make sacrifices and changes to accommodate you in his or her life. I cannot tell you how many people I have counseled who are deep in the midst of giving their love to someone undeserving. To look at the synastry, you’d believe they were “made for each other,” when in fact, one person is incredibly selfish and childish, the other a martyr or self-abnegating to the point of self-destruction.

So the answer to compatibility is not in the synastry; it begins with the individual. Only then do we look at the synastry.

Why are squares and oppositions seemingly so difficult? Because you are not ready to adapt to someone else’s very different world-view. That’s all it is. It is not more complicated than that. A square between your personal planet and theirs is not sufficient information to end a relationship, or to feel hesitant about beginning one; nor is the trine an automatic green light to get involved.

Compatibility ultimately comes more from where the person is in their maturity and level of development, meaning that if you are an Aries, you could be just as compatible with a Virgo as with a fire sign person, IF you share a similar worldview and are willing to work at the differences between you. The fact is that every single relationship deals with differences; there is no relationship that doesn’t have at least one very ugly aspect between them.

When dealing with these very ugly aspects, the Ugly Duckling Aspect, let’s call it, I used to wonder how in the world the couple survived? You find out, over time, that traditionally ‘difficult’ aspects point to ways in which the two people are required to reach for maturity; traditionally ‘easy’ aspects are overlooked. The most amazingly incompatible people (from a traditional astrological perspective) form entirely workable relationships because they are each getting something they need. That’s the key to relationship success and longevity: give and get something you need, rather than something you think you need, or, more likely, have been taught you must want.

How similar do you have to be, to be compatible with your significant clone? Not as similar as we have been lead to believe.

Compatibility, ultimately, stems from appreciating the simple fact that other people are not you; you have not been cloned. Squared Suns can appreciate each other for what the other has that they don’t, for example.

The shyer Cancer Sun can appreciate an Aries Sun’s strength and raw courage, while a hot-headed Taurus Sun can appreciate his Aquarius partner’s cool-headed rationality. There will be times that these squares annoy each other, of course.

Being annoyed by your partner happens with trined planets too, though. The perspicacious Scorpio, sharp-tongued and in an ill-humour, will offend sensitive Cancer. Taurus’ inability to throw anything away will drive Virgo over the bend. Sagittarius’ desire to see the world on her own will make Leo feel ignored.

Are these trines compatible? In that moment, hell no. The key to compatibility is not the similar element; the key to compatibility is appreciation of, and tolerance for, the differences between them.

Perhaps the most obvious truth about compatibility is that by looking at the qualities and characteristics of the sign itself, you will learn more about who is actually compatible than by comparing elements. Would you say that a harsh-tongued Capricorn or Scorpio is actually compatible with a Pisces who doesn’t know how to stand up for herself? I suspect not.

“His Sun sextiles mine!” muses the dreamy Pisces. “Yet why does he never tell me he loves me?” Ah…. therein lies the heart of what’s wrong with this system of belief. Will her Capricorn lover ever give her what her romantic Pisces heart needs? Tune in to find out.

Encouraging longevity in any relationship relies on each person’s ability to adapt to the other’s needs. If neither person is willing or able to adapt and change, then is it going to matter if their planets are sextile or trine? No. It will not. And yet love can move mountains and be miraculously inventive when the two people are sufficiently motivated, and you might be surprised how often that happens for people who otherwise have seemingly dismal synastry.

As Saturn ends its transit through Libra, look around carefully and notice how authentic is the face you’re showing your partner? All is well in relationships until the masks come off; it’s only when you are real that you are in danger of losing the other.

No other transit is more poignant when it comes to the loss of one’s primary relationship than Saturn through Libra, but no other transit will be more personally challenging to our limited ideas of relating than Saturn through Scorpio.

45 thoughts on “Saturn Transiting Out Of Libra and Misunderstandings About Synastry

  1. I see this differently. Saturn in Libra has meant WORK, hard work, on relationships. During this Saturn transit a whole lot of people, including my clients, have felt that relationships were too much work. This pressure will ease with Saturn going into Scorpio.

    However, anyone thinking hard work on sex will be fun, guess again. Saturn can make the best things in life seem dreary, tiring, and a chore!

  2. Thank you Alison, for saying what I’ve always believed but probably didn’t do a very good job of articulating. I love how, at its best, Astrology can teach us about ourselves, our relationships and our world. I’ve never believed though, that Astrology was intended to be used in order to *determine* which relationships will work and which won’t or why – except maybe in retrospect,. Even then, people aren’t limited by their charts anymore than they’re limited by their previous choices or mindsets.

    There are divine mysteries that bring people together; sometimes the most challenging relationships are the ones that help us to see aspects of ourselves that might otherwise have remained hidden, the ones that help us to mature and ‘grow’. Wisdom combined with a little common sense doesn’t hurt either when making healthy relationship choices.:)

    Coincidentally, with transiting Saturn conjunct my natal Venus, North Node and Sun -all in Libra- I made a major (and very difficult) decision to step back from an important relationship in which the other person’s definition of love was very different from mine, and where change and self-examination were considered threats to their autonomy. We have challenging aspects to be sure, but the bigger part of the equation was how each of us as individuals chose to view those challenges. I so appreciate your observation about the value in getting what we *need* rather than what it is we *think* we need (or want).

    Well said. Thanks again!

    • The most difficult thing of all might be knowing when to say goodbye to a relationship that is not giving you what you want… although we seem to stay in relationships that give us what we need. Now, as long as what we need is healthy for us, that’s fine. It’s when we’ve got those secret, hidden-from-the- conscious needs buried in our childhoods that things get complicated….

      • So true…….i am still working out old relationship issues,some with the ex involved and some without.Healing is expedited when both are involved and willing,whether together or not.

        Michael

  3. Allison,so well delineated and very interesting as i feel these issues are the major focus of life’s continuing journey and our experience here on this planet/plane.As you are aware somewhat, the relationship that Moira and I share with both our crosses,though distanced with many miles has morphed but still intricately involved on many levels of growth,expansion and healing of which you have described in your article.

    Michael

  4. So funny that the heart encloses the lion and the crab, my hubby of 35 years being the Leo and me being Cancer. To give you an idea of our differences, you might call me the queen of superlatives, while he is the king of understatement. He’s the putative introvert and I, the putative extrovert. I need his steady quietude and he needs my joy. He needs my recognition and appreciation of his inner little boy and I need the total acceptance he gives me. One of my favorite things about him is the absolute conviction he has that he deserves to be treated well. Treated kindly, lovingly, tenderly, respectfully, playfully, gently teased, and never to be taken for granted. After lo these many years I am able to listen to him, to take his viewpoint into account, previous projections played out, and now there is only him, only him to be enjoyed and appreciated.

    • It’s been my experience that it can take a lifetime to truly be heard, to have someone wake up next to you one morning and say something along the lines of, “oh, that’s what you meant!” to something you said many years ago. I think, sadly, we start out most relationships immersed in our own ego needs, and only come to an eventual realisation that the other person is entirely separate from us and has their own needs, feelings, etc. I cannnot think of a relationship I had in my 20s that was in any way based on what I think love is now, for example. For me now, love is about self-sacrifice, for one thing, and those were not words I had in my conscious vocabulary at 25.

  5. A great article, Alison. The more I get into synastry, the less obvious the uber-groovy signals ~ like Sun/Moon or Venus/Mars seem to work. Your reference to whether someone possesses a chart capable of dedicating to a relationship and riding out the waves is the most significant place to start.

    I begin to think that charts with strong squares and oppositions are natives who are capable of starting, working through, and completing their objectives. This doesn’t mean “controlling” ~ it means dedicated to the relationship as a “project”, an “entity” that is highly valued.

    Of course, that could go verrryy wrong, if one partner is psychotic! This is where we have to keep our own values and perspectives in a certain distinction from our relationships.

    The late degrees of Saturn in Libra have been most telling, or provisional ~ and there’s no evident aspect to explain this. It’s just happened. Saturn transiting the 12th house cusp ? Who knows.

    ~ ~ ~

    The Saturn in Libra action has been so tied into Venus in Gemini action, and also the Mars Virgo squares to Venus. Mars was a freakin’ drag. Ask anyone I know. Climbing out of that into a Venus RX, hasn’t been the fanciest dance either ~ but I think Saturn’s really put a definition on what we desire, and how simplified that can be. It’s as though Saturn’s brought Venus down to basics. Not that Venus’ language in our chart should be dismissed, but clarified.

    • Yes, somewhere along the line, the traditional recipes we were told always work started to fail, and I had to start looking at how it is possible for couples to survive, year after year, with the most appalling aspects to work out. I pretty much think now that if you don’t tell people they’re miserable, they won’t be. Conversely, if they think they *are* miserable, they’ll find any excuse, including astrology, to explain it.

      Also, I think each couple is made up of two people who do not actually know one another very well, not unless they’ve known each other for a long time and have gone through hell and high water together. Most people are working off the glimmer in the mirror, if you know what I mean (that’s part of what I meant about taking the mask off, which I think Saturn in Scorpio will facilitate for some people—not everyone, of course, but then, you only get out of therapy what you put into it, and planets transiting through Scorpio resemble going to therapy…) ;-)

  6. Excellent Alison :) Saturn transit in Libra was rather text book for moi with some accurate timings for events to unfold, tested matured opened many doors the good the bad and the ugly and slamming them shut for good. goodbye Saturn! Amen

    • … I know, huh? I’m a little trepidatious about Saturn going into Scorpio. If only because I have three planets there, one of them, the moon. Like I need more pain. Sigh. But, putting my pink glasses on, it doesn’t have to be all that bad. I’m not sure how one entirely avoids the negatives of any transit, though. My old strategy, of sleeping through them, isn’t working anymore, LOL. ;-p

      • I dont believe we can avoid them,ever.Throughout my years i’m learning to embrace them and transform……it’s all good!!

        Michael

      • yeah i see what you mean with Pluto in capricorn square Uranus you won’t sleep walk it, on the other hand it can be a very invigorating time. Tested you will be, then again it shows you what your made of which can’t be all that bad and remember fear is a typical response to Saturn transits. you’ll need allot of patience and be prepared for a good old dose of reality!! haha :)

  7. I would say that the one constant from the beginning of our relationship was that we were always able to relate as friends. And a big part of any relationship is working out the projections. It’s how each person in the relationship grows. Not easy, both people have to be willing. Everyone comes with baggage. Hooking up long-term, hopefully happens because both involved see the other person as worth putting up with their baggage. And as time goes on, the baggage gets unpacked and put away. On the other hand, I have seen long-term relationships (including my parent’s for example) where the baggage on each side only ends up in standing in opposition to the other. I remember a joke. An obituary was once written that Mrs. So & So, wife of Mr So & So had recently died shortly following after her husband into the ether. After a marriage of over 50 years, it was thought that she collapsed “due to the sudden lack of opposition….”

    • I laughed when I read this… that’s very good about the married couple of 50 years. And so true. There’s one marriage in particular I am thinking of where, if the two didn’t have each other to fight, rage and storm against, I am not sure how they would cope with their own internal angst. Marriage does seem to be one way for people to avoid going into therapy…. ;-)

      There are many reasons why a relationship between Cancer and Leo is “supposed” to work; some of these reasons stem from the dawn of time, and the fact that these are two of the oldest Babylonian constellations, and one represents the male principle, the Sun, while the other represents the female, the Moon. So there is a ‘natural’ complementarity to the two, in that they each need the other for purpose and definition. They each represent deeper truths or realities, such as the idea that without dark, you cannot have light, so in that way, esoterically, they are linked through their association with duality and polarity. And of course, if the female is Cancer and the male is Leo, or the energies are similarly balanced by other factors in the charts, it usually is one of the best combinations, astrologically. Or, it can be, as long as the Cancer is supportive and the Leo’s ego is not threatened too much. People do not realise that both signs are pretty much equally sensitive, just in different ways and about somewhat different things.

      • Absolutely. My sweetie did get enough therapy to help him understand my need for mine. Intense sexual and other abuse history, a couple of rapes and one attempted, adult child of alcoholic, alcoholic and overeater myself; my goal was complete recovery and the desire to become as close to the person I would have been had I had an optimal childhood. His issues revolved mostly around sadness about a poverty-stricken childhood, the strains of being the oldest brother of 5 younger brothers, as well as the loss of his his dad when he was 18 and his mom when he was 26. Despite all this, his patience and generosity to me, in taking on 10s of 1000s of therapy debt, finally paid down 5 or 6 years ago has been immeasurable. I used to call myself my therapist\’s walking IRA. We are not rich people, but he, grudgingly or not at times, has supported me in my recovery in this way and also put me through school. He is a colon cancer survivor and has a recent diagnosis of myasthenia gravis. We\’re also watching his prostate. Now it\’s my turn to care for him, and to make choices that benefit him. For that, I am responsible.

  8. Excellent article, thanks Alison :) for the bite of rapel, I have 10 years of practice with the composite the theme of the relationship that can bring the most unfortunate of the synastries. It is true that should be ignored at the beginning of a relationship and not Astrology technical plans step stop on the squares, oppositions… The points of contacts in conjunction are in my opinion the rapprochement between two people.
    See a conjunction Venus and Uranus will be often more virulence as a conjunction of Sun and moon. If it is the man who plays the role of the Moon, have to be bringing the pants in the relationship, Venus human and March woman in conjunction is such if the wishes of the woman are not contained it will scare away his man….

    There would be lots of thing say at this level of astrology, thank you for raising the problem recurring in the relationship and which will always be current….

    • Thank you for reading! You know, the composite is a weird and wonderful device, which shows so much, but is often over-relied on too early in the relationship. I try to discourage people from focusing on the composite until they know for sure they have a real relationship. The Pluto in Libra generation in particular seems to need to learn a fair amount of patience when it comes to relationships, I’ve noticed; I have rarely seen the other generational signs as hell-bent for leather when it comes to relationships. Even the youngest ones I talk to now, Pluto in Scorpio, are much more cautious. And Pluto in Virgo is as well. The reason I believe this is because when I admonish Pluto in Scorpio or Virgo to slow down and get to know the person, they do not screech back at me some version of “I need him, I want him, I have to have him!!,” giving me the impression that they are throwing caution to the winds to have this person. The search for relationship perfection is very strong in Pluto in Libra, as well, and I have seen a lot of switching of partners (rather than spending any time alone, getting to know themselves better).

      Any Libra planets in transit or natally bring with them the issue of relating, and make it the most important thing in the person’s life, hence the anxiety. My belief is that Scorpio transits function in some ways in opposition to Libra energy (due to the nature of air and water signs), and in some ways complementarily (because each wants the same thing, just in different ways and for different reasons). When Saturn goes through Scorpio, the “lessons” of Saturn have more to do with whether or not the relationship is right for you, and reflects who you truly are. Relationships entered into during Libra transits will be more carefully assessed during Scorpio, since Scorpio can’t help but be more interested in the deeper truths and realities of any relationship.

      • I have not studied the position of Pluto in sign, but I participated in the forum Astromail in the category Synastrie to have acquired a certain maturity in the Astrology relational which is a study a full Astrology long enough.

        Pluto in Libra perceives the vulnerability of the relationship more than a Pluto in another sign. Pluto in Libra is certainly difficult to identify in the search for equilibrium of the Libra …

        Do you use the transits on composite?, I find that it is a very talking technique, the composite solar revolution also and the progress of the composite theme…

        To assess the karmic plan can use converses progressions and compare the Sun Moon couple has different levels between the two persons… Coaching in the new prenatal Moon is also interesting to study…. (I have Venus in Libra my Taurus AS master) :)

      • Yes, I do use the transits on a composite. I think it can be very telling. Another thing I do, since I use progressed composites, is take into account the fact that in a progressed composite, you might see something that tells you that this relationship is incredibly important to one or the other of the couple. For example, if the progressed sun of the composite is in the same sign or, more significantly, the same degree and sign of one person’s natal Sun or other personal planet; that tells you this is an important year for that person in the relationship. “Important” in what way… there are many possible reasons or outcomes.

        I am very interested to hear of your perspective on Pluto in Libra. I have heard that they are the first generation, en masse, to deal with the divorces the Pluto in Cancer generation initiated during their childhood and teenage years, and that makes complete sense. I can only imagine how much harder my life would have been, for example, if I had had Pluto in Libra with two parents whose Plutos were both in Cancer. Yuck. It was hard enough having two parents whose Plutos both conjuncted my Sun. Talk about squashed.

        The Pluto in Cancer generation was the one who initiated a lot of the feminist dialogue of gaining freedom from responsibilities and outmoded ideas about relationships, marriage in particular (not ironically or coincidentally, I believe, during the transit of Pluto through Libra in the 1970s). I can only imagine that the Pluto in Libra generation was surrounded by discordant, confusing messages about relationships. I long thought my brother, born in 1969, has Pluto in Libra, since he’s been married five times, but it turns out his Pluto is in Virgo, like mine! He’s crazy when it comes to relationships for other reasons.

  9. Hi,
    I love these reading these comments as Saturn in Libra has been a very intense experience for me. I am a Capricorn with Venus and Ascendant in Capricorn making Libra my Midheaven- I also have Mars in Libra on the Midheaven and a Moon in the 7th house in Cancer! Can any of you guess what I have been going through in the last 3-4 years?? My entire identity (I have early Capricorn degrees) has been challenged through
    pressure and destruction- and all of it has been good!! As a heavy duty Capricorn, I TRUST Saturn. I see the energy of Saturn as working like a pressure cooker creating sometimes a narrowness that attempts to make material or focused- patterns of energy that don’t otherwise have this opportunity. Saturn in Libra can take away and bring a relationship. (when Saturn transited my 7th house I divorced and then began a new long term relationship). I agree on using individual personality characteristics as relationship indicators as well as ways in which the parties involved can grow through their differences..my husband has little traditional “easy” aspects with me- but our marriage is one of respect, love, fun and great interrelatedness- mostly through our personal consciousness and ability to appreciate each others whole selves…

    • Thanks for reading, and believe me, I think a lot of us with Capricorn planets do understand. I too have a Libra midheaven; in fact, Saturn has been sitting on my MC for many months now, sort of stationed there, at 22 degrees, approximately, which also happens to square my sun. Prior to that, I had it squaring my natal Saturn at 2˚ Capricorn. The Saturn in Libra period has not been fun, for a lot of reasons. Only now am I starting to get some clarity on what I personally have been dealing with, now that Saturn is finally moving on again.

  10. She succumbed to a lack of opposition … thanks so much for this unforgettable obituary, SusyC !

    Thanks, Michael, for referring to our relationship’s progress during the Saturn Libra square to our shared Cardinal crosses, as described by Myprentiss, and Alison here. We’ve been learning how to negotiate the differences between a Cancer and Capricorn sun opposition, and how to understand each other’s individual responses and language. During this time we’ve negotiated a few rough passages when we’ve both analyzed the value of our relationship. It is clear to both of us that this relationship is of supreme importance to each of us negotiating the pressure cooker of the transits. Michael and I each have our nodes involved in the Cardinal transit mixture. Considering the geographical distance between us, we continually support each other on spiritual and practical levels.

    It’s quite a trip, and I don’t think we’d still be sharing the same satellite channel, if it weren’t for our Cardinaled perseverance. We joke that we may be proof that two Cardinal squared individuals cannot survive a relationship ~ but here we are, 14 months later ~ laughing out loud, crying, researching, cooking, and learning how to allow each other to “let off some steam” from time to time.

    Let’s say “the honeymoon is over”, but the relationship is standing the test of Saturnian time! We’re looking forward to Saturn in Scorpio. It’ll hook my 12th house Neptune and 1st house Jupiter, and our Scorpio stellium first house composite. Saturn is conjunct Venus there, which I think is a significant energy Saturn in Libra has been showing us how to successfully manage. I’m sure this composite conjunction is part of the kharmic lessons we’re surviving due to the vast physical distance between us, but “working” on “desire” is something we can, and do achieve.

    • Well, it’s my experience that the older we get, the greater is the likelihood that we look at difficulties one of possibly two ways (but really only one way, when you’re highly cardinal). The way we see things is based on the challenge versus the likelihood of being able to meet the challenge. If you realistically can see a way to accomplish the task in question, then by god, you will move the mountain to do so, and whether or not you’re happy in any given minute really is beside the point. You’ve set yourself a task to complete, and you will do so or die trying.

      I get it; I have cardinal Sun and Saturn on the ASC in cardinal houses (7 and 1), as well as cardinal nodes, albeit in houses 3 and 9. :-)

      Once we have our hearts set on an outcome, it’s incredibly hard to pull us off of it. This is a different kind of determinism than fixed energy, which can be rigid to the point of stupidity. Cardinal energy is rarely stupid; we like having things work out, but we expect them to be difficult as hell, and I would say, because the rest of my chart is made up of a lot of fixed energy, fixed sign planets kinda don’t know when to quit. There’s a blindness with fixed energy that you don’t see with Cardinals. Cardinals, in my opinion, work smarter, but fixed energy works harder and longer. Cardinals will give up once they determine that they just cannot win. I’m not sure fixed energy would. It might just keep going and going, like the Energizer Bunny.

  11. Indeed since the downgrading of Pluto in 2006 by astronomers I took back with Pluto, but this does not prevent me to speak on the collective level. Pluton in libra is the generation or there was much more of divorce of parents and it is the first Pluto libra lived in terms of consciousness since its discovery.
    For the composite progress I assess the soli-lunar cycle in his career. A relationship that began in the end of a composite progress has perhaps not much has this to say. Square Sun / Moon in the composite progress very often marks a difficulty of inking in the relationship.

    You write that is neglected too often a square or opposition in the synastrie but when it comes to two mercury square or opposition, there is no solution when conflict in communication is present. There are cards which truly dare problem by the contact points and the adversities that it can cause.
    A synastrie study is very complex in its approach and it will always be confrontations that two people will have to face, perfection is not on Earth.

    It also takes on the global movement that attempts to develop collective trends than the individual development in a relationship …

    • I think much depends on the maturity and ability of the two people involved in any difficult aspect (or an aspect that is perceived to be difficult) to determine what the outcome will be, whether the two will stay together or part.

      A friend of mine committed suicide last year; our Moons were almost exactly opposite one another, amongst other things. I think he lived out the nature of the opposition, in that he took the opposite path to that which I would have taken, or would have had him take; but then, I was not living his life, feeling his feelings, so I cannot judge, just say that his choice would not have been mine, in dealing with depression.

      His chart was comprised of Saturn in Scorpio square almost everything, and I think he never found a productive way to handle his pain. He did everything except the one thing that would have helped him, which was admit he had a problem and get professional help. Apparently, his approach to the problem, via a rather stubborn and not terribly self-aware Moon in Taurus, is not that uncommon for men his age who commit suicide; they frequently try to change surface issues, in the hopes that they will not have to truly look at themselves at any depth. I can’t tell you how different this is to my Moon in Scorpio. It’s like night and day. What do you do with these kinds of oppositions, oppositional ways of dealing with the world, with reality? It’s not easy. The two people are very different. Where is the middle ground, if there is any? That’s the question you have to answer for yourself. Ultimately, I think people stay together because they need each other and find ways of putting up with things they can’t stand, but are compelled to tolerate simply because they really do have to have the other person in their life.

      • The person I’ve let go of for now -the one I referred to in my earlier comment- has Saturn conjunct Mars in Scorpio, square almost everything, including Pluto and Jupiter in the 4th. I also have a Mars/Pluto square, only our Mars are in opposition (mine is in early Gemini in the 9th), while our Plutos form an out-of-sign conjunction. We both have three planets in Scorpio, only one of mine is Jupiter, which is conjunct both my Mercury and Neptune. I live in the depths, whereas she fears them – she’s even afraid of her insights into others.

        I saw how this person I loved was in almost total denial, with seemingly no interest in going to the root, preferring instead to remain on the surface and act out the same repressed, superficial role she’s been taught to play since childhood. It was terribly self-destructive and too hard for me to watch, also as you say, it became too difficult for us to find any healthy and authentic “middle ground”. It’s funny how I used that exact expression in trying to describe the nature of our differences, which felt toxic.

        In the end, I had to accept the fact that her choices were her own, as are mine. I’ve removed myself, but left the door open. Who knows what the future holds?

        I’m so sorry you lost your friend.

      • I guess ‘middle ground’, most of the time, is the place where we find compromise. The irony is that in an opposition, the literal middle ground of the two places is found in the axis that would create a 90˚ angle, a square. So that if the opposition is between Taurus and Scorpio, their middle ground lies in the subject matter of the Leo/Aquarius axis. So that the suggestion I would make to people stuck in permanent, unresolvable conflict, is that you usually have to ask each person to agree to change something, some part of the equation that’s keeping them stuck. However, to do this, both people have to be fairly equally emotionally healthy. You don’t have a dialogue when the two people are not actually talking to one another, but live out their emotional reality elsewhere.

      • Saturn is problematic in natal when it crystallizes the Sun and the moon on the relational in synastrie plan or in a composite
        First two weeks of July I traded with a man who had a Sun/Saturn
        birth under a last quarter square therefore opposed Moon Saturn, I also have a Sun/Saturn phase square full moon and is found in the composite under the Lunation of 19 July square Saturn…
        Out of it there was an agreement by a big, two sextiles AS in the same element, conjunction Sun / Jupiter Neptune, Venus and Uranus.
        In his natal Venus square Mars as in my solar revolution and I currently live the transit of Mars on my explosive rendezvous Uranus opposite Venus which is followed by a failure of computer for this man and I find it very well, because I want no commitment with 900 km of geographic distance.
        Initially the fact that it is the sign of the Virgin and this is the sign that attracts me the least and the recent photo that it my shown, that is to say on the internet many men cheat… It remains a friend and nothing else, I said this man was married 3fois, I have when even… better to live only one evil accompanied.. .the life is a long quiet river
        Good day to you Alison

      • Yes, avoiding married men is a very good idea, and then the more often they have been married, the more suspicious I become about their ability to stay in a relationship. When you add in all the other difficulties, such as long distance… it doesn’t sound good, better to be avoided. Saturn was in Virgo back in 2008-9, and the Virgo sun person might still be dealing with issues from that time. Divorces, for example, can take years to complete.

  12. On the loss of your friend Alison do you have assessed the strength of
    your Neptune in the composite? because the link can survive to le-de-here the physical world if psychic attachment was alive and seeks to develop a spiritual sen more authentic

    • Well, we’ll see. I am already surrounded by family members, especially my grandfather, so… it’s quite possible my friend has gone on to hover over someone else. He was very close to his sister, so I would expect he would hover there. It’s also possible he hasn’t really left his apartment, where he died. Very sad.

  13. Ironically, death is much harder on those of us who survive ~ than on those who’ve passed. I reflect on this with you (our 8th houses) from time to time. A rough conclusion for you to process; make meaningful in a productive way.

  14. As a psychologist interested in astrology, I will never thank you enough for having recalled that the potential of a successfull relationship comes first with the individuals’ actual capa city and desire to love and relate whatever their charts and synastry might be …

    • Thank you for reading. Yes, we must begin at the beginning. Any relationship, including the one with the self, must have a strong foundation or underpinning. Astrologically, we too often look at the Sun position for this ability, but in fact, it really does require the whole chart to see the whole person, although aspects to the Sun can indicate strength or weakness in terms of what the individual can bring to the relationship.

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